Tag Archives: Phil Vischer podcast

Francis Chan, the NEO House Church Network, and Women in Leadership


Getting Images: Yoido Full Gospel Church members praying

I recently listened to Francis Chan on the Phil Vischer Podcast, episode 227, sharing about his current ministry, the NEO House Church Network:

Popular author and preacher Francis Chan walked away from his megachurch to try something completely different – a series of tiny house churches in inner city San Francisco.  Why the change?  And what can we learn from his big experiment in going “small?”  This week on the podcast with Francis Chan – is the future of the church tiny??

At the end of the podcast, he mentioned that the NEO House Church Network is complementarian, reserving pastoral leadership to men.  It is a part of The Christian & Missionary Alliance (complementarian) and is also affiliated with The Gospel Coalition, which holds complementarianism as a key doctrine.

I love what Chan is doing, building a house church network that gives thousands of people the opportunity to minister in intimate and committed small communities. Mobilizing the priesthood of all believers should be the ultimate goal of a pastor.  And Chan is an amazing minister of the Gospel that I admire.  So I thought he would benefit from this quick story about a pastor that mobilized the women in his church to start house churches and they grew to be the largest church in the world.

“Don’t be afraid to empower women,” says the pastor of the world’s largest church.  Churches are wrong not to let women become spiritual leaders, David Yonggi Cho told church leaders at a “Discipling a Whole Nation” conference in Italy.  “If you ever train the women, and delegate your ministry to them, they will become tremendous messengers for the Lord.”

Most leaders at Cho’s Yoido Full Gospel Church in Seoul, Korea, are women.  The 700,000-member congregation is divided into 50,000 cell groups that meet in homes, and about 47,000 cell leaders are women, he said.  Of the church’s 600 associate pastors, 400 are women.  “In ministry they are equal with men,” he said.  “They are licensed.  They are ordained.  They become deaconesses and elders.”

Cho adopted the cell church principle in 1964 after he collapsed from exhaustion trying to minister to his then 3,000-member congregation.  His male leaders balked when he told them to divide the congregation into cells that meet in their homes.  “They said, ‘Fine, but we are not trained to do that and we are not paid to do that.  Why don’t you have a long vacation?’ This is the Korean way of saying ‘Why don’t you resign from the church?’ ”

When he asked the women leaders to do it, they said, “Teach us, pastor.  We will do anything for you,” he said.  The church grew from 3,000 to 18,000 in the next five years.  The cell churches started new cell churches and more lay leaders got involved in ministry, Cho said.  “It is the will of God to have a growing church.”

Source: https://godswordtowomen.org/empower.htm

Over time, using this cell principle, Cho’s church grew to over 1 million people.  Sadly, Cho has been convicted of embezzling from his church.  It is common for one person holding much power to be corrupted.  This should not diminish the impact of Cho’s female cell church pastors though!

Matthew 7:16 tells us, “You will know them by their fruit.”  The fruit of empowering women in ministry at Yoido Full Gospel Church in South Korea was unprecedented growth.  Church planters like Francis Chan should take note and include women in leadership.

Further reading:
The Junia Project has a great article on Why Women Make Great Church Planters.

The MissioAlliance has several must-read articles on Women in Church Planting.

Thank you for visiting The Beautiful Kingdom Warriors, where we fight for our rightful place beside our brothers in Christ’s reconciling and redeeming work on Earth. “Like” us on Facebook if you’d like to read links from around the web each day on gender issues in the Church and world.

The Lost World of Adam and Eve with Dr. John Walton

I just learned something MIND BLOWING about the creation of Eve that has astounding implications for understanding the equality of men and women as God’s original design and intent.

I have been listening to lots of fascinating podcasts as my summer cleaning has kicked into gear here in beautiful coastal Maine.  I cannot be subscribed to enough podcasts as I spend around 40 hours a week allllll byyyyy myselllllffff tidying up vacation rentals.  This past week, one particular episode from the Phil Vischer podcast stands out.  They had on Old Testament scholar and Wheaton College professor Dr. John Walton to discuss the creation account in Genesis.  In particular, he was discussing his books, The Lost World of Genesis One and The Lost World of Adam and Eve (with contributions from N.T. Wright).  If you cannot listen to the whole podcast, start at 29:00 to hear Dr. Walton’s thoughts on the creation of Adam and Eve.  Your world will be rocked!  Here is the entire discussion, and I will highlight the conversation’s main points below.

  • Ancients were more interested in discussing FUNCTIONAL origins rather than MATERIAL origins.  It’s more about ORDER than about STUFF.
  • Reading the text with our modern lens DISTORTS the text.  We ought to read the text exactly for what it was written for.  Read it according to the author’s intent, understanding the language they used and the culture they came from.
  • A Hebrew word and its meaning cannot always be reduced to an English word.  We have no suitable translation for some Hebrew words, like bara translated “create,” asah translated “to make,” and yatsar translated “formed.”
  • We assume because of our modern worldview and culture that these words are material in nature, but in Hebrew it can refer to PROCESS. For instance, with asah, the subject is somehow involved in a causation process, but it does not necessarily denote direct causation or to what level the subject is involved.  It also means we cannot prove a literal six day process just from the text.
  • Adam is used in Genesis 1-5 in a variety of ways, sometimes with a definite article on it (the adam), so that this is not his name, this means “human.”  “Adam” and “Eve” are Hebrew, which didn’t exist at the time, so these were not their names until Hebrews wrote their story down.  We have an Israelite account written to Israelites in a particular period.
  • We assume Genesis 2 is giving us more detailed information about day 6, but day 6 never mentions man and woman, it talks about the creation of HUMANITY.  Perhaps more than two people.  This makes more sense when we get to chapter 4 when Cain finds a wife and says “anybody who finds me will kill me” when he is driven away, and forms a city.
  • At 29:00 they begin to talk about the Creation of Adam and Eve–This is a must hear!  Dr. Walton asserts that forming from DUST and building from a RIB in ancient near eastern accounts are ARCHETYPAL claims, not claims of material origin.
  • “Dust” pertains not to chemistry but to mortality. Humans in the Bible were NOT created IMMORTAL.  Creationists argue, “There can’t have been evolution because there was no death before the Fall,” but Dr. Walton asserts they were created mortal but given an antidote, the Tree of Life.
  •  At 38:30, they start going into Eve’s creation.  The translation “rib” is not represented in the Septuagint or Latin or Aramaic.  This is the only place in the Bible that the word tsela is translated “rib” instead of “side.”  It is an architectural term, “this side of the temple,” “this side of the ark,” and there are always TWO sides.
  • Adam knows this is not just a bone; “this is bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh.”
  • “Deep sleep” has two possible contexts.  It could pertain to a situation where there is imminent danger and the person doesn’t know because they are asleep.  Jonah in the bottom of the boat, Saul is asleep in the camp when David is creeping in, Sisera is asleep in Jael’s tent when she drives a tent peg through his head.  Or “deep sleep” may have to do with a visionary experience.  Daniel falls into a deep sleep and has visions in chapters 9 and 10.  Adam falls asleep and has a VISION in which he sees himself cut in two, out of which one half God builds Eve.  Eve is the SAME AS YOU, is made of the same flesh.  
  • The original audience was more concerned with the theological and basic identity implications of the creation story rather than the scientific implications.  This story is about WHO WE ARE, our IDENTITY.  We are frail, mortal beings, dust.  We are gendered pairs, ontological EQUALS, of the same essence and matter.  The Bible does not speak to biological origins.
  • This interpretation does not challenge the traditional understanding of marriage, sin, or the existence of Adam and Eve.  This also does not contradict Paul, as N.T. Wright explains in the book.

“I have suggested that one can accept the historical Adam without thereby making a decision about material human origins.  This has the advantage of separating scientific elements, material human origins, from exegetical and theological elements with the result that conflict between the claims of science and the claims of Scripture is minimized without compromise.” – Dr. John Walton

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